somehow this became an essay about mickey's awesome

[prof_pangaea]

so i have been watching new who with my roommate, starting from the beginning of s1, and not skipping the bad bits. i think everyone else i have hooked onto doctor who i've hooked through watching s3, since it was a very good starting place and didn't have huge amounts of facepalming and explaining to do, plus i love it (and i would skip tSC code until they were good and hooked. mwahahaha). except for my ex-guy, we watched old school videos from the library and then s1 when i got my hands on it. ah, olden days.

anyway, watching new who with someone who is also a fanboy type, but has no previous doctor who experience has been interesting. we have had many conversations.

here is a visual aid:


prof_: "Damn, Jackie, I LOVE YOU. Look at her! She is sitting with Ten, trying to help him, even though she sort of hates the Doctor. That's real compassion. People are always going on about Rose being compassionate but --"

Land: "Wait, when was Rose ever compassionate? Maybe in an episode I've never seen? I am seriously trying to think of anything she ever did that was compassionate. Like, what? I'm just going to leave Mickey while he maybe dies?"


i tried to think of something, because i have been defending series 1 rose for a couple years now and... i couldn't really come up with anything. okay, she talks to people like gwyneth and the blue girl from EotW, but that's not so much showing compassion as not being actively assholic. plus, with gwyneth, she really does talk down to her and treat her as naive and stupid, just because gwyneth is a product of her culture, which is in itself a rather naive and unintelligent kind of behaviour. rose is compassionate to the dalek in dalek, which i don't blame her for, since, you know, the doctor never told her "yes, my homeworld was destroyed by the daleks, who were, by the way, the most ruthless and evil species in the history of the universe and if you ever meet one you sould probably not hug it." but then at the end of the episode she stops the doctor from killing the dalek, and it seems to be more because the doctor is not acting the way she expects him to than because she really understands the dalek. then, in tEC she hears a child calling for its mother, and tries to find him, until she gets distracted by a barrage balloon and captain jack's arse, and the kid never comes back into her mind until the doctor mentions him.

meanwhile i can easily come up with loads of times that rose was selfish, immature or just plain horrible to the people who love her. erm. i remember watching s1 and being intrigued by this. especially because the doctor has his own troubling behaviour patterns -- taking rose to see the destruction of her planet on her first trip with him, so she can feel what he has felt, just a little. using emotional blackmail to keep rose with him after the events of AoL/WWIII. fathers day is just a clusterfuck of disfunction, with rose manipulating the doctor into doing something extremely dangerous, the doctor letting hiself be manipulated, the bit where he's going to leave her and she yells, "you'll be back, i know how sad you are!" the AMAZINGLY parallel scenes with pete and rose and then the doctor and rose (pete cups her cheek with his right hand, and then hugs her; the doctor cups her cheek with his right hand and does the same thing, just afterwards). this is when we figure out, okay, the doctor is rose's replacement father figure, he's older, he's strong, he'll always protect her and never leave her, that's what she wants; but when her real father shows up she'll drop him fast. and now doctor KNOWS this but he still goes along with it. anyway, there was interesting stuff going on that season, but it was only ever touched upon sporadically.

now i'm halfway through the second series and i forgot how much of it was so bad i had to repress it. i mean, i remember facepalming and cringing a lot, but god damn. watching RotC/AoS was especially painful as rose is at the peak of selfishness and immaturity, to the point of character bashing -- the scene where the doctor is telling her that if she ever trusted him, EVER, she needs to listen to him, and not go and try to find pete, while she pouts and keeps stealing glances over at the poster of him. ugh. i would be grossed out if they were writing a ten year old that way, let alone a twenty year old. also it is frustrating because david tennant has better chemistry with pretty much everyone on the show than billie piper. how about the scene where, right after the TARDIS *dies* (the thing rose knows is the most important to the doctor) rose wanders off to emo about her not!dad, and mickey stays with the doctor, and asks him about travelling between parallel worlds, and the doctor tells him about the time lords. actually, i think he says more to mickey about the time lords than he's ever said to rose. *facepalms* also there is the scene that i forgot about where everyone is breaking up into groups (rose with pete, because the doctor knows he can't stop her), the doctor with mrs. moore, mickey with jake, and the doctor calls out to him:

Doctor: "Mickey!"
Mickey: [turns around]
Doctor: "Good luck."
Mickey: "Yeah, you too. Rose, I'll see you later."
Rose: "Yeah, you better."


Doctor: "If we survive this, I'll meet you back at the TARDIS."


Mickey: "That's a promise."

this was SO GREAT for about two seconds, until mickey turns back and sees rose and the doctor smiling and hugging each other and, you know, giving each other the consideration they never seem to give him. and dammit, that's when he decides he's staying in the alt!verse. you can see it on his face. ;____;

anyway, i am remembering that i was quite glad when i heard billie piper was leaving at the end of the second series, because the producers had ruined rose and rose was ruining the doctor. when it was announced that she was coming back for s4 i was really glad, because i thought they could fix a lot of what they did to her character, and frankly, retcon her character in general, because watching those episodes again i keep wondering why the fuck anyone would really care about her, the way she was written. obviously that chance was squandered with journey's end.

anyway i have been thinking of this because of watching the series with noobs. having to explain, "no, really, it gets better! i swear!" makes me realise that if i hadn't been a doctor who fan before the new series began, i probably wouldn't be a fan now. or if i was, it would be because i had stopped watching during series two, caught an episode from series 3 or 4, and though, "oh, this looks a lot better now! awesome." and now fandom's not just made up of people who knew the old series, or people who watched rose and nine (or ten) and fell for the show; we've got that plus we've got people who came in with martha, and people who came in with donna, and we've got enough history for people to start saying, "yeah, i don't really like that character/season/episode" and have it not necessarily be a wank storm, just like nowadays people can say trial of a time lord was a bit shite and it doesn't mean they hate doctor who. or colin baker. or... mel. although they probably do hate mel (i can still love mel because i *haven't* seen trial of a time lord. ha!). and yeah, i'm afraid that, upon consideration, i just don't like rose. not the one we got on screen, anyway. here's to hoping she can be the next mel, though, given some years (and big finish getting many, many renewals of their license).

but it was all worth it because we got mickey. mickey, i love you. if you were mah boyfriend i would not leave you behind during an crazy apocalyptic earthquake/time storm. and if RTD wanted to make a character people could relate to, i'll take him -- a good, decent guy, kind of goofy, tries to do the right thing, in love with someone who doesn't love him back, but strong enough to face up to that in the end, starts off watching the game on telly and goes on to save the world with the skills he taught himself. also he's hot. i like that too.

also jackie. i wish i had a jackie.

Comments

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

None, to the point that I was seriously wondering if we were meant to think they were angry and not speaking to each other. It was extremely weird.

very weird. although not necessarily any weirder than rose and jack having pretty much no interaction either. like, you know, "omg you're alive and you were dead! wtf!" oh, JE, you make no sense.

I got the impression he came back because he wanted to give the character some closure/show he'd grown and changed for the better, then leave off with him for good.

yes, sensible.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

"although not necessarily any weirder than rose and jack having pretty much no interaction either. like, you know, 'omg you're alive and you were dead! wtf!' "

Though at least they actually did seem to acknowledge each other's existence--Rose and Mickey I think literally never even made eye contact the entire episode.

"oh, JE, you make no sense."

Sshh, that kind of talk will get you labeled a "ming-mong."

"yes, sensible."

He mentioned again Mickey starting out as a "buffoon" and came very close to saying outright that you couldn't pay him enough to appear in Nu Who again. I can't say I blame him.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

Rose and Mickey I think literally never even made eye contact the entire episode.

mickey broke up jackie and pete's marriage by sexing with jackie, and rose will NEVER FORGIVE HIM. "you ruined my perfect family, mickey smith. you and your sexiness ruined it."

Sshh, that kind of talk will get you labeled a "ming-mong."

oh, if only someone would say such a thing to my face. *continues to be disturbed at usage of this term*

He mentioned again Mickey starting out as a "buffoon" and came very close to saying outright that you couldn't pay him enough to appear in Nu Who again. I can't say I blame him.

i can't either, which gives me the sadface.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

"mickey broke up jackie and pete's marriage by sexing with jackie, and rose will NEVER FORGIVE HIM."

Come to think of it, Jackie and Mickey did seem quite comfortable and at ease with each other...

"oh, if only someone would say such a thing to my face. *continues to be disturbed at usage of this term*"

It's the glee with which people throw it around that I hate. I humbly apologize for not having a nine-hundred-percent positive opinion of a television show, clearly it means something's profoundly wrong with me personally.

"i can't either, which gives me the sadface."

At least he managed to find the escape hatch before he fell prey to Christmas Special Guest Star of Color Syndrome, there's that.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, Jackie and Mickey did seem quite comfortable and at ease with each other...

that is one way to put it, yes.

I humbly apologize for not having a nine-hundred-percent positive opinion of a television show, clearly it means something's profoundly wrong with me personally.

it obviously means that you have a profound developmental disability and should be made fun of for it. nothing is problematic about that assertion at all.

At least he managed to find the escape hatch before he fell prey to Christmas Special Guest Star of Color Syndrome, there's that.

OH GOD, did you see the excerpt from his book where he was thinking of who he could kill for the s4 finale, and was like, "well, i can't kill any of the central characters, that'd be terrible! but i could kill mickey, yeah! but i don't think i will, even if people say, THAT'S SO PC, TO NOT KILL THE ONLY BLACK MALE CHARACTER. bah, i don't even care if it's PC!" without realising that, hmmmm, maybe there is a REASON that mickey, the "expendable one", as he put it, is the only black mal character on the show. *facepalm*

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

"OH GOD, did you see the excerpt from his book where he was thinking of who he could kill for the s4 finale, and was like, 'well, i can't kill any of the central characters, that'd be terrible! but i could kill mickey, yeah! but i don't think i will, even if people say, THAT'S SO PC, TO NOT KILL THE ONLY BLACK MALE CHARACTER. bah, i don't even care if it's PC!' "

......so he's applauding his own profound political bravery in not killing off the show's only regular male character of color, which character got continuously derided as an "idiot" and useless and a "tin dog" and a "zero" through his entire run and had to get away from the Doctor in another universe to develop any sense of self-worth? Goddamn, if rampant egotism could fly RTD's brain is O'Hare Airport. And if Rosita makes it to the fifty-minute mark of the Christmas special before biting it, I'll be sincerely shocked and I won't be the only one.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

......so he's applauding his own profound political bravery in not killing off the show's only regular male character of color, which character got continuously derided as an "idiot" and useless and a "tin dog" and a "zero" through his entire run and had to get away from the Doctor in another universe to develop any sense of self-worth?

um... yes.

And if Rosita makes it to the fifty-minute mark of the Christmas special before biting it, I'll be sincerely shocked and I won't be the only one.

i actually think she will make it, possibly because it would be so very blatant if she didn't? pssibly because i also have this feeling, from the CiN clip, that morrisey!doctor and rosita are going to be intended as a broad parody/commentary on doctor/companion in the new era, and so he will probably have something cracktastic happen to her, but not death. i think nos is probably quite right when saying, "she's got rose's name, she's black like martha, and she has breasts. donna had breasts."

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

"i actually think she will make it, possibly because it would be so very blatant if she didn't?"

I seriously don't think so. I know she's supposed to be an amalgam of the companions, but that just means they could kill her off to give us another retread of the Magic Emo--particularly since RTD's already said that Rosita is a sideline character and the real "companionship" is meant to be between the Doctor and the impostor Doctor. Tick, tick, tick...

"he will probably have something cracktastic happen to her, but not death."

Maybe she can become another random female inanimate object with an easily accessible mouth. Merry Christmas, kids.

"i think nos is probably quite right when saying, 'she's got rose's name, she's black like martha, and she has breasts. donna had breasts.' "

Rose's name, Martha's skin color and Donna's personality and cleavage. Clever by the standards of some other culture somewhere out there in the universe, maybe.

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

Jackie and Mickey started fucking behind Rose's back midway through S1, and never stopped, and when Rose found out, they told her it was her fault for abandoning them both, and Mickey told Rose that Jackie is hotter and better in bed than her. I DECLARE THIS CANON.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

box, you have milf radar, don't you? :D

wait until i finish my handy/jackie fic, my friend. OH YES.

and that is obviously canon, as howard, mickey, rodrigo, elton, pete and handy will attest to

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

"You know what ELSE Jackie is better at than you, Rose? Controlling her KEGEL muscles! A daughter should not be looser than her own mother down there!"

box, you have milf radar, don't you? :D

How did I get this reputation?

MAGIC

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

How did I get this reputation?

the first time i mention jackie having hot sexing with a younger guy and you magically appear in my journal!

[box-in-the-box.livejournal.com]

... It was coincidence?

Besides, you KNOW Jackie would be tighter than a monkey's paw. She does her crunches.

[malicehaughton.livejournal.com]

...I have a Jackie/Ten fic. While Rose goes off for a little vacation with her human friends, Ten stays at the flat with Jackie and they don't stop (only for the occassional meal, sleep, toilet breaks, and for breathers in between) until they're caught. The TARDIS is involved in the sexing too. So that would be Jackie/Ten/TARDIS pairing.

And I still have yet to write Handy/Jackie fic. But I will get there. Oh yes, I will.