prof_pangaea | somehow this became an essay about mickey's awesome

Entry tags:

somehow this became an essay about mickey's awesome

so i have been watching new who with my roommate, starting from the beginning of s1, and not skipping the bad bits. i think everyone else i have hooked onto doctor who i've hooked through watching s3, since it was a very good starting place and didn't have huge amounts of facepalming and explaining to do, plus i love it (and i would skip tSC code until they were good and hooked. mwahahaha). except for my ex-guy, we watched old school videos from the library and then s1 when i got my hands on it. ah, olden days.

anyway, watching new who with someone who is also a fanboy type, but has no previous doctor who experience has been interesting. we have had many conversations.

here is a visual aid:

prof_: "Damn, Jackie, I LOVE YOU. Look at her! She is sitting with Ten, trying to help him, even though she sort of hates the Doctor. That's real compassion. People are always going on about Rose being compassionate but --"

Land: "Wait, when was Rose ever compassionate? Maybe in an episode I've never seen? I am seriously trying to think of anything she ever did that was compassionate. Like, what? I'm just going to leave Mickey while he maybe dies?"

i tried to think of something, because i have been defending series 1 rose for a couple years now and... i couldn't really come up with anything. okay, she talks to people like gwyneth and the blue girl from EotW, but that's not so much showing compassion as not being actively assholic. plus, with gwyneth, she really does talk down to her and treat her as naive and stupid, just because gwyneth is a product of her culture, which is in itself a rather naive and unintelligent kind of behaviour. rose is compassionate to the dalek in dalek, which i don't blame her for, since, you know, the doctor never told her "yes, my homeworld was destroyed by the daleks, who were, by the way, the most ruthless and evil species in the history of the universe and if you ever meet one you sould probably not hug it." but then at the end of the episode she stops the doctor from killing the dalek, and it seems to be more because the doctor is not acting the way she expects him to than because she really understands the dalek. then, in tEC she hears a child calling for its mother, and tries to find him, until she gets distracted by a barrage balloon and captain jack's arse, and the kid never comes back into her mind until the doctor mentions him.

meanwhile i can easily come up with loads of times that rose was selfish, immature or just plain horrible to the people who love her. erm. i remember watching s1 and being intrigued by this. especially because the doctor has his own troubling behaviour patterns -- taking rose to see the destruction of her planet on her first trip with him, so she can feel what he has felt, just a little. using emotional blackmail to keep rose with him after the events of AoL/WWIII. fathers day is just a clusterfuck of disfunction, with rose manipulating the doctor into doing something extremely dangerous, the doctor letting hiself be manipulated, the bit where he's going to leave her and she yells, "you'll be back, i know how sad you are!" the AMAZINGLY parallel scenes with pete and rose and then the doctor and rose (pete cups her cheek with his right hand, and then hugs her; the doctor cups her cheek with his right hand and does the same thing, just afterwards). this is when we figure out, okay, the doctor is rose's replacement father figure, he's older, he's strong, he'll always protect her and never leave her, that's what she wants; but when her real father shows up she'll drop him fast. and now doctor KNOWS this but he still goes along with it. anyway, there was interesting stuff going on that season, but it was only ever touched upon sporadically.

now i'm halfway through the second series and i forgot how much of it was so bad i had to repress it. i mean, i remember facepalming and cringing a lot, but god damn. watching RotC/AoS was especially painful as rose is at the peak of selfishness and immaturity, to the point of character bashing -- the scene where the doctor is telling her that if she ever trusted him, EVER, she needs to listen to him, and not go and try to find pete, while she pouts and keeps stealing glances over at the poster of him. ugh. i would be grossed out if they were writing a ten year old that way, let alone a twenty year old. also it is frustrating because david tennant has better chemistry with pretty much everyone on the show than billie piper. how about the scene where, right after the TARDIS *dies* (the thing rose knows is the most important to the doctor) rose wanders off to emo about her not!dad, and mickey stays with the doctor, and asks him about travelling between parallel worlds, and the doctor tells him about the time lords. actually, i think he says more to mickey about the time lords than he's ever said to rose. *facepalms* also there is the scene that i forgot about where everyone is breaking up into groups (rose with pete, because the doctor knows he can't stop her), the doctor with mrs. moore, mickey with jake, and the doctor calls out to him:

Doctor: "Mickey!"
Mickey: [turns around]
Doctor: "Good luck."
Mickey: "Yeah, you too. Rose, I'll see you later."
Rose: "Yeah, you better."

Doctor: "If we survive this, I'll meet you back at the TARDIS."

Mickey: "That's a promise."

this was SO GREAT for about two seconds, until mickey turns back and sees rose and the doctor smiling and hugging each other and, you know, giving each other the consideration they never seem to give him. and dammit, that's when he decides he's staying in the alt!verse. you can see it on his face. ;____;

anyway, i am remembering that i was quite glad when i heard billie piper was leaving at the end of the second series, because the producers had ruined rose and rose was ruining the doctor. when it was announced that she was coming back for s4 i was really glad, because i thought they could fix a lot of what they did to her character, and frankly, retcon her character in general, because watching those episodes again i keep wondering why the fuck anyone would really care about her, the way she was written. obviously that chance was squandered with journey's end.

anyway i have been thinking of this because of watching the series with noobs. having to explain, "no, really, it gets better! i swear!" makes me realise that if i hadn't been a doctor who fan before the new series began, i probably wouldn't be a fan now. or if i was, it would be because i had stopped watching during series two, caught an episode from series 3 or 4, and though, "oh, this looks a lot better now! awesome." and now fandom's not just made up of people who knew the old series, or people who watched rose and nine (or ten) and fell for the show; we've got that plus we've got people who came in with martha, and people who came in with donna, and we've got enough history for people to start saying, "yeah, i don't really like that character/season/episode" and have it not necessarily be a wank storm, just like nowadays people can say trial of a time lord was a bit shite and it doesn't mean they hate doctor who. or colin baker. or... mel. although they probably do hate mel (i can still love mel because i *haven't* seen trial of a time lord. ha!). and yeah, i'm afraid that, upon consideration, i just don't like rose. not the one we got on screen, anyway. here's to hoping she can be the next mel, though, given some years (and big finish getting many, many renewals of their license).

but it was all worth it because we got mickey. mickey, i love you. if you were mah boyfriend i would not leave you behind during an crazy apocalyptic earthquake/time storm. and if RTD wanted to make a character people could relate to, i'll take him -- a good, decent guy, kind of goofy, tries to do the right thing, in love with someone who doesn't love him back, but strong enough to face up to that in the end, starts off watching the game on telly and goes on to save the world with the skills he taught himself. also he's hot. i like that too.

also jackie. i wish i had a jackie.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I wrote an entry about Rose before she reappeared in “Turn Left“, since a friend of mine challenged me to discuss her character for a meme.

I was incredibly disappointed to see that Rose’s character hadn’t grown as far as I had hoped by her proper appearance in “The Stolen Earth”/”Journey’s End”. I found her interesting enough to watch in “Turn Left” because it seemed like she had taken up the Doctor’s role in Pete’s World and had hoped that it’d trickle over into the last two episodes. And I had hoped that she’d choose to move on from the Doctor and stay in the AU, taking it up as her responsibility and be all ass-kicky at Torchwood. I’d definitely respect her as a character more.

BOY WAS I WRONG.

I haven’t properly ranted about Journey’s End and probably never will. And I won't clog your journal comments with my rant, because I think once I start, I won't be able to stop. I haven’t really seen it since it aired. I certainly was not happy the way it ended. And I felt so awful for Mickey. Was there even any interaction between Mickey and Rose at ALL, let alone a lack of goodbye (I can blame the ’no goodbye’ mostly because I think Rose figured she’d be staying with the Doctor - as did Mickey - so they’d see each other again)? Had their relationship become that strained? That dude deserved FAR better.

I still like Rose. I’ll still watch episodes from S1 and S2. But yeah. As far as wrapping up “her story” ~~AGAIN~~, it was pretty awful. And even as someone who likes her, I hope HOPE that she'll never be brought up again. That chapter of the Doctor's life is over and he can have his closure and move on. I actually have a pretty good feeling this will be true, seeing as we have Moffat taking the wheel and a new Doctor next year.

I'm not current with the Torchwood rumor mill, but is Mickey going to show up? Because THAT would be awesome.

Also, I <3 Jackie. That's why I put her in my comic.

Blimey, this entry is reminding me how rusty I am on these topics. Time to do some binging before the con, I think!

(like I really need an excuse to re-watch DW...)

"Was there even any interaction between Mickey and Rose at ALL?"

None, to the point that I was seriously wondering if we were meant to think they were angry and not speaking to each other. It was extremely weird.

"I'm not current with the Torchwood rumor mill, but is Mickey going to show up? Because THAT would be awesome."

Noel Clarke has since confirmed that he's not going to be in it. He seemed fairly set on not playing Mickey again, post-JE; from the interview I got the impression he came back because he wanted to give the character some closure/show he'd grown and changed for the better, then leave off with him for good.

And I won't clog your journal comments with my rant, because I think once I start, I won't be able to stop.

dude, why do you think i make posts! I WANT CRAZY RANTS, DANG IT. or measured discussion. either way. anyway, sometime i will do the meta i have had simmering in my mind about JE, but i needed to get this out first, because it is uppermost at the moment, and also will provide brain background. mostly i think it will turn into a long essay about the treatment of queerness and sexuality in new who, because, other than ruining rose's character and fucking up donna, i think that is the worst legacy of that episode.

I can blame the ’no goodbye’ mostly because I think Rose figured she’d be staying with the Doctor - as did Mickey - so they’d see each other again

when mickey left the TARDIS the doctor looked confused and then mickey said something like, "don't have to be a genius to see how this will play out", and my impression was that he could see the doctor was going to leave nate and rose together in the alt!verse. which implies that even mickey can tell that the doctor is a fucked up dude with relationship issues, but rose can't. erm.

I still like Rose. I’ll still watch episodes from S1 and S2.

i want to like rose! when i was writing this i was coming up with all sorts of, "well, but if you look at it this way, it's really fucked up, but it's interesting..." but, yeah. actually watching the episodes makes it hard. especially s2. when mickey says he's going to stay in the alt!verse because his grandmother needs him, and rose says, "but what if *i* need you?" god damn. or the bit from the first screencap, where jackie has fallen asleep looking after the doctor, and rose stands in the doorway and says, "the proper doctor wouldn't have done this! he would save us." um... the proper doctor wouldn't have done what? sacrificed his life and risked an unstable and dangerous regeneration to save you? *facepalm city*

mickey isn't going to be in the next TW series. i am conflicted, because on the one hand, i would have had a reason to watch torchwood. on the other hand, i would have had a reason to watch torchwood. anyway, now i can believe that he is working at UNIT, sometimes with martha, and being generally awesome, so i am fine with that.

Also, I <3 Jackie.

notice how i snuck in sexy ten/jackie up there. OH YEAH.

That's why I put her in my comic.

...which i need to remember to actually read. *makes note*

None, to the point that I was seriously wondering if we were meant to think they were angry and not speaking to each other. It was extremely weird.

very weird. although not necessarily any weirder than rose and jack having pretty much no interaction either. like, you know, "omg you're alive and you were dead! wtf!" oh, JE, you make no sense.

I got the impression he came back because he wanted to give the character some closure/show he'd grown and changed for the better, then leave off with him for good.

yes, sensible.

WE SHOULD ALSO WATCH DW TOGETHER AT THE CON. WITH THE HELP OF WHISKEY.

"although not necessarily any weirder than rose and jack having pretty much no interaction either. like, you know, 'omg you're alive and you were dead! wtf!' "

Though at least they actually did seem to acknowledge each other's existence--Rose and Mickey I think literally never even made eye contact the entire episode.

"oh, JE, you make no sense."

Sshh, that kind of talk will get you labeled a "ming-mong."

"yes, sensible."

He mentioned again Mickey starting out as a "buffoon" and came very close to saying outright that you couldn't pay him enough to appear in Nu Who again. I can't say I blame him.

Noel Clarke has since confirmed that he's not going to be in it. He seemed fairly set on not playing Mickey again, post-JE; from the interview I got the impression he came back because he wanted to give the character some closure/show he'd grown and changed for the better, then leave off with him for good.

Oh, good for him! I would have loved to see him show up again, whether it be Who, TW, or SJA, but it's nice to see that he's moving on. And I think I remember him being in sort of promo shot for a new show, so I'm happy he's got something new to work on.

Thanks!

You're welcome! He's not wanting for work from what I've seen, and yeah, I liked how Mickey left off in JE (one of the very, very few things I liked about it). And now you can imagine just about anything for his future.

Rose and Mickey I think literally never even made eye contact the entire episode.

mickey broke up jackie and pete's marriage by sexing with jackie, and rose will NEVER FORGIVE HIM. "you ruined my perfect family, mickey smith. you and your sexiness ruined it."

Sshh, that kind of talk will get you labeled a "ming-mong."

oh, if only someone would say such a thing to my face. *continues to be disturbed at usage of this term*

He mentioned again Mickey starting out as a "buffoon" and came very close to saying outright that you couldn't pay him enough to appear in Nu Who again. I can't say I blame him.

i can't either, which gives me the sadface.

"mickey broke up jackie and pete's marriage by sexing with jackie, and rose will NEVER FORGIVE HIM."

Come to think of it, Jackie and Mickey did seem quite comfortable and at ease with each other...

"oh, if only someone would say such a thing to my face. *continues to be disturbed at usage of this term*"

It's the glee with which people throw it around that I hate. I humbly apologize for not having a nine-hundred-percent positive opinion of a television show, clearly it means something's profoundly wrong with me personally.

"i can't either, which gives me the sadface."

At least he managed to find the escape hatch before he fell prey to Christmas Special Guest Star of Color Syndrome, there's that.

"Turn Left" had me holding my breath because I was surprised how she's presented in that. She was close to my fanon!Rose! And all of that came crumbling down during the last two episodes so much that I was practically crying about it while I was watching it.

mostly i think it will turn into a long essay about the treatment of queerness and sexuality in new who, because, other than ruining rose's character and fucking up donna, i think that is the worst legacy of that episode.

Oh god, I don't even know where to BEGIN with Donna. I barely get angry at this show, but I was FURIOUS about that.

when mickey says he's going to stay in the alt!verse because his grandmother needs him, and rose says, "but what if *i* need you?" god damn.

YES. I can't stand when Rose treats Mickey like that! Or how in "School Reunion" when Mickey was like 'CAN I COME' and you see Rose in the foreground mouthing 'NO' to the Doctor. I also quite enjoy that while "School Reunion" ends with Rose being quite pissed off at Mickey, "Girl in the Fireplace" starts up with them being BFF again.

anyway, now i can believe that he is working at UNIT, sometimes with martha, and being generally awesome, so i am fine with that.

I can jump on this boat, too. Or Mickey has become a rogue alien hunter/defender of the Earth. He rides around in a black leather jacket and on a Harley, saving the day then moving onto the next town.

I know Freema is going to be on Law & Order: London, but is she also a 100% confirmation of not being on Torchwood either? I remember there being a bit of wank about her choosing L&O over TW.

notice how i snuck in sexy ten/jackie up there. OH YEAH.

I DID. Well done.

a good, decent guy, kind of goofy, tries to do the right thing, in love with someone who doesn't love him back, but strong enough to face up to that in the end, starts off watching the game on telly and goes on to save the world with the skills he taught himself

Your characterization of Mickey is nothing short of awesome. I think you summed up, in one sentence, what made me turn from not liking the character/feeling sorry for him to completely loving him and wanting more.

Mine too! And then, yes. Came crashing right down, bringing all my hopes for the finale with it. SIGH.

i was so happy when mickey decided to stay in our universe at the end of the 4th season. i'm holding out hope that he will appear in the season 5 specials, or at least on torchwood (and that they will not ruin his character). i would love to see more of him.

am i anomaly in that i was not a fan of doctor who before i started watching the new series (in fact i knew almost nothing about it), and have remained a fan throughout despite having seen all of season 2?

Jackie and Mickey started fucking behind Rose's back midway through S1, and never stopped, and when Rose found out, they told her it was her fault for abandoning them both, ~~and Mickey told Rose that Jackie is hotter and better in bed than her.~~ I DECLARE THIS CANON.

I've long thought that Rose was about as compassionate as Turlough. Which still gives her a one-up on C'rizz, but that's not hard. I think most of the Rose=compassionate statements seem to come from interviews and a few lines from the Doctor, not from anything Rose has actually done.

I also don't think that it's a bad thing that she's not that compassionate. I wish they'd played with her flaws more instead of pretending they weren't there. It would have been way more interesting and not as facepalmy.

I was so excited about Rose in Turn Left. The Rose shown in Turn Left was everything I'd always hoped Rose would be. She was in charge and solving problems and really being the Doctor. Something S1 Rose always seemed to have the potential to do. Then tSE/JE came about and my hopes were dashed. Maybe the Rose from Turn Left was actually from yet another universe? I read a fic along those lines and it was brilliant.

I thought the saddest thing about Mickey leaving the alt!verse was his statement about there being nothing for him there anymore. I got the impression that he and Jackie were really close, but that was about it. Poor guy.

I get the impression that they wanted Rose to have this Big Romantic Storyline or something during the finale of S4. And I am the most anti-romantic person I know; I find romance false. So when Rose is shown so determined to be Reunited With the One She Loves, not for reasons of "You need to help fix this problem" (that's sort of incidental to her reaching out in the finale of S4), it bothered me massively.

I loved the idea in "Turn Left" that she's gained the ability to look across all the variations of the universes to keep Her Doctor safe. The idea of Rose becoming the Doctor's meta-guardian angel was quite interesting. I respected that, especially since she doesn't seem to have any self-serving interests in the episode. I wanted her to take on the responsibility of keeping him safe so that he can continue keeping others safe. Because that would be awesome. *clings to her fanon!Rose*

Come to think of it, Jackie and Mickey did seem quite comfortable and at ease with each other...

that is one way to put it, yes.

I humbly apologize for not having a nine-hundred-percent positive opinion of a television show, clearly it means something's profoundly wrong with me personally.

it obviously means that you have a profound developmental disability and should be made fun of for it. nothing is problematic about that assertion at all.

At least he managed to find the escape hatch before he fell prey to Christmas Special Guest Star of Color Syndrome, there's that.

OH GOD, did you see the excerpt from his book where he was thinking of who he could kill for the s4 finale, and was like, "well, i can't kill any of the central characters, that'd be terrible! but i could kill mickey, yeah! but i don't think i will, even if people say, THAT'S SO PC, TO NOT KILL THE ONLY BLACK MALE CHARACTER. bah, i don't even care if it's PC!" without realising that, hmmmm, maybe there is a REASON that mickey, the "expendable one", as he put it, is the only black mal character on the show. *facepalm*

box, you have milf radar, don't you? :D

wait until i finish my handy/jackie fic, my friend. OH YES.

~~and that is obviously canon, as howard, mickey, rodrigo, elton, pete and handy will attest to~~

"OH GOD, did you see the excerpt from his book where he was thinking of who he could kill for the s4 finale, and was like, 'well, i can't kill any of the central characters, that'd be terrible! but i could kill mickey, yeah! but i don't think i will, even if people say, THAT'S SO PC, TO NOT KILL THE ONLY BLACK MALE CHARACTER. bah, i don't even care if it's PC!' "

......so he's applauding his own profound political bravery in not killing off the show's only regular male character of color, which character got continuously derided as an "idiot" and useless and a "tin dog" and a "zero" through his entire run and had to get away from the Doctor in another universe to develop any sense of self-worth? Goddamn, if rampant egotism could fly RTD's brain is O'Hare Airport. And if Rosita makes it to the fifty-minute mark of the Christmas special before biting it, I'll be sincerely shocked and I won't be the only one.

~~"You know what ELSE Jackie is better at than you, Rose? Controlling her KEGEL muscles! A daughter should not be looser than her own mother down there!"~~

box, you have milf radar, don't you? :D

How did I get this reputation?

noel clarke said he's not going to be appearing on TW, and i doubt he'll be on DW any time in the near future (or.. ever). he's got a lot of other projects lined up, and good on him.

you're a more casual fan, though. you watch it and enjoy it, and that's it. you're not moved to write 5,000 word essays on how s2 proves doctor/rose or how s3 proves something or other about gallifreyan culture, or write fic where the doctor and mickey travel through space and time together. i also think that is how i got through s2, because back then i wasn't nearly as involved in fandom or invested in the show. i was like, "wow, this episode was pretty shite. i'll ignore all the bits that were crap, though, because i liked that one scene." also it was more like buffy for me, where i sort of... never liked buffy for the first four seasons, but i still really liked the show. then when s3 of dw started and i was like, "damn, martha is awesome!" i could see more what had missing.

yes, his first appearance, i was like, "okay, i definitely see why rose left earth to go with the doctor." in retrospect that is sort of bad writing, to only be able to make something seem appealing by making everything (or everyone) else around it seem like shite.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Page 1 of 5

somehow this became an essay about mickey's awesome

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Linked over here from Lizbee

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject