somehow this became an essay about mickey's awesome

[prof_pangaea]

so i have been watching new who with my roommate, starting from the beginning of s1, and not skipping the bad bits. i think everyone else i have hooked onto doctor who i've hooked through watching s3, since it was a very good starting place and didn't have huge amounts of facepalming and explaining to do, plus i love it (and i would skip tSC code until they were good and hooked. mwahahaha). except for my ex-guy, we watched old school videos from the library and then s1 when i got my hands on it. ah, olden days.

anyway, watching new who with someone who is also a fanboy type, but has no previous doctor who experience has been interesting. we have had many conversations.

here is a visual aid:


prof_: "Damn, Jackie, I LOVE YOU. Look at her! She is sitting with Ten, trying to help him, even though she sort of hates the Doctor. That's real compassion. People are always going on about Rose being compassionate but --"

Land: "Wait, when was Rose ever compassionate? Maybe in an episode I've never seen? I am seriously trying to think of anything she ever did that was compassionate. Like, what? I'm just going to leave Mickey while he maybe dies?"


i tried to think of something, because i have been defending series 1 rose for a couple years now and... i couldn't really come up with anything. okay, she talks to people like gwyneth and the blue girl from EotW, but that's not so much showing compassion as not being actively assholic. plus, with gwyneth, she really does talk down to her and treat her as naive and stupid, just because gwyneth is a product of her culture, which is in itself a rather naive and unintelligent kind of behaviour. rose is compassionate to the dalek in dalek, which i don't blame her for, since, you know, the doctor never told her "yes, my homeworld was destroyed by the daleks, who were, by the way, the most ruthless and evil species in the history of the universe and if you ever meet one you sould probably not hug it." but then at the end of the episode she stops the doctor from killing the dalek, and it seems to be more because the doctor is not acting the way she expects him to than because she really understands the dalek. then, in tEC she hears a child calling for its mother, and tries to find him, until she gets distracted by a barrage balloon and captain jack's arse, and the kid never comes back into her mind until the doctor mentions him.

meanwhile i can easily come up with loads of times that rose was selfish, immature or just plain horrible to the people who love her. erm. i remember watching s1 and being intrigued by this. especially because the doctor has his own troubling behaviour patterns -- taking rose to see the destruction of her planet on her first trip with him, so she can feel what he has felt, just a little. using emotional blackmail to keep rose with him after the events of AoL/WWIII. fathers day is just a clusterfuck of disfunction, with rose manipulating the doctor into doing something extremely dangerous, the doctor letting hiself be manipulated, the bit where he's going to leave her and she yells, "you'll be back, i know how sad you are!" the AMAZINGLY parallel scenes with pete and rose and then the doctor and rose (pete cups her cheek with his right hand, and then hugs her; the doctor cups her cheek with his right hand and does the same thing, just afterwards). this is when we figure out, okay, the doctor is rose's replacement father figure, he's older, he's strong, he'll always protect her and never leave her, that's what she wants; but when her real father shows up she'll drop him fast. and now doctor KNOWS this but he still goes along with it. anyway, there was interesting stuff going on that season, but it was only ever touched upon sporadically.

now i'm halfway through the second series and i forgot how much of it was so bad i had to repress it. i mean, i remember facepalming and cringing a lot, but god damn. watching RotC/AoS was especially painful as rose is at the peak of selfishness and immaturity, to the point of character bashing -- the scene where the doctor is telling her that if she ever trusted him, EVER, she needs to listen to him, and not go and try to find pete, while she pouts and keeps stealing glances over at the poster of him. ugh. i would be grossed out if they were writing a ten year old that way, let alone a twenty year old. also it is frustrating because david tennant has better chemistry with pretty much everyone on the show than billie piper. how about the scene where, right after the TARDIS *dies* (the thing rose knows is the most important to the doctor) rose wanders off to emo about her not!dad, and mickey stays with the doctor, and asks him about travelling between parallel worlds, and the doctor tells him about the time lords. actually, i think he says more to mickey about the time lords than he's ever said to rose. *facepalms* also there is the scene that i forgot about where everyone is breaking up into groups (rose with pete, because the doctor knows he can't stop her), the doctor with mrs. moore, mickey with jake, and the doctor calls out to him:

Doctor: "Mickey!"
Mickey: [turns around]
Doctor: "Good luck."
Mickey: "Yeah, you too. Rose, I'll see you later."
Rose: "Yeah, you better."


Doctor: "If we survive this, I'll meet you back at the TARDIS."


Mickey: "That's a promise."

this was SO GREAT for about two seconds, until mickey turns back and sees rose and the doctor smiling and hugging each other and, you know, giving each other the consideration they never seem to give him. and dammit, that's when he decides he's staying in the alt!verse. you can see it on his face. ;____;

anyway, i am remembering that i was quite glad when i heard billie piper was leaving at the end of the second series, because the producers had ruined rose and rose was ruining the doctor. when it was announced that she was coming back for s4 i was really glad, because i thought they could fix a lot of what they did to her character, and frankly, retcon her character in general, because watching those episodes again i keep wondering why the fuck anyone would really care about her, the way she was written. obviously that chance was squandered with journey's end.

anyway i have been thinking of this because of watching the series with noobs. having to explain, "no, really, it gets better! i swear!" makes me realise that if i hadn't been a doctor who fan before the new series began, i probably wouldn't be a fan now. or if i was, it would be because i had stopped watching during series two, caught an episode from series 3 or 4, and though, "oh, this looks a lot better now! awesome." and now fandom's not just made up of people who knew the old series, or people who watched rose and nine (or ten) and fell for the show; we've got that plus we've got people who came in with martha, and people who came in with donna, and we've got enough history for people to start saying, "yeah, i don't really like that character/season/episode" and have it not necessarily be a wank storm, just like nowadays people can say trial of a time lord was a bit shite and it doesn't mean they hate doctor who. or colin baker. or... mel. although they probably do hate mel (i can still love mel because i *haven't* seen trial of a time lord. ha!). and yeah, i'm afraid that, upon consideration, i just don't like rose. not the one we got on screen, anyway. here's to hoping she can be the next mel, though, given some years (and big finish getting many, many renewals of their license).

but it was all worth it because we got mickey. mickey, i love you. if you were mah boyfriend i would not leave you behind during an crazy apocalyptic earthquake/time storm. and if RTD wanted to make a character people could relate to, i'll take him -- a good, decent guy, kind of goofy, tries to do the right thing, in love with someone who doesn't love him back, but strong enough to face up to that in the end, starts off watching the game on telly and goes on to save the world with the skills he taught himself. also he's hot. i like that too.

also jackie. i wish i had a jackie.

Comments

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i was like "nooooooooo you be taking my mickey!" but yes. i always prefer characters to go off and grow than stay and stagnate.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

nine invited him along, happily. and ten lets mickey come along even though rose is very obviously against it because sarah jane wants him to. which is interesting. i also think that he might have let mickey come along to buy hiself time -- if rose has her real boyfriend on board (even if they've broken up, or aren't sure) then that's more time before he has to deal with the fact that rose wants the doctor to be her new boyfriend. argh that season is so fucked. he wants to romantically pair off mickey and rose because it's easier, but he still wants to be able to monopolise rose's attention and time whenever he feels like it.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

they have chemistry! i still can never get over the scene where mickey and rose are walking in opposite directions, and mickey calls out "it'll never be me, will it?" and the doctor DOESN'T go after him. the doctor always goes to the people in pain, the people who need help. that's who he is.

the nice thing about ten having all these gaps in his story for the specials is we can envision all sorts of adventures that the doctor and mickey might have had together, since obvs the doctor invites mickey to travel with him after they foil an alien invasion together by combining their leet skills. or after the doctor asks mickey to hack into torchwood so he can send them prank emails on their secure accounts.

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

MAYBE THEY BECOME LOVERS. Ten/Mickey/River?

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

I am so right there with you on this. I am watching new!Who with some friends of mine every week now and has been almost painful sitting through S1 and S2 again (the latter, especially). The more I watch those episodes, the more I hate most of them.

One thing that has happened though is, much like you, I have been becoming more and more in awe and respect of Mickey and Jackie. If they weren't around, I don't think I could deal with the episodes at all. They are positively awesomesauce with some more awesomesauce heaped on top.

This week is "Army of Ghosts"/"Doomsday" thankfully, so we are almost into S3 (which I've been raving about to them). It can't get here quickly enough!

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

this is a brilliant plan, and the obvious truth. i have always wanted there to be more ten/mickey (or...any). it's like ten/jackie: dead sexy, and no one writes it. ;___;

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

visual proof of their love:



yes!

[nostalgia-lj.livejournal.com]

I always thought Ten looked a bit teary when Mickey left.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

argh that season is so fucked.

It was that way ever since the Doctor let Rose treat a major historical figure like a character in a video game. It would have served 'em both right if that banishment came back to bite them (although, arguably, it did...)

School Reunion without shipper glasses is a fascinating essay in the Doctor's priorities because *every time he has to choose between companions* he defaults to Sarah Jane. Every time. He hands her the screwdriver. Whenver there's a group, I'm pretty sure he looks at SJ first. He invites Mickey on board over Rose's objections because she asks. (Although I find it more than a little nauseating that Rose has to remind the Doctor to think about inviting Sarah Jane back on!)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I wish Mickey had been able to hang onto his new girlfriend, the one mentioned in Boom Town. Would have served Rose right if he'd moved on before the alternate universe.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

The thing I found nauseating about that last TARDIS scene in School Reunion was that it was...All About Rose. Rose's being a whispery possessive bitch about Mickey wanting to join on, Rose being assured by Sarah that she's more than clever enough to keep up with the Doctor, like Sarah's role there to approve of Rose, and Rose looking down from on high to finally note approval of Sarah and invite her on board like it's her place to decide who the Doctor lets in his own damn house. I HATE THAT SCENE. Just leave me with the Ten/Sarah stuff out in the doorway, thanks.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

well, he probably wouldn't have stayed in the alternate universe if he'd had strong ties to this one. we get to see him being awesome and over her when he shows back up in AoG/doomsday, and that is good.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

"Oh, wait, except that Nine grudgingly gave him props and let Mickey save face when Mickey asked him for help doing so. Whereas Ten, despite having needed Mickey's help and knowing that Mickey had saved the world several times, treats him as some sort of moderately annoying pet. Of Rose's."

I recently came across a comment that Ten was nicer to Mickey than Nine. Um...bzuh? Nine/Mickey were like Four/Harry. Ten/Mickey were...there were the moments of good, definitely, but the moments of rejection went way deeper than Nine's light mockery.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

HEY, TEN KISSED MICKEY BUT HE NEVER KISSED ROSE. SO...SH'YEAH, I SHOULD THINK SO. =D

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

It would have served 'em both right if that banishment came back to bite them (although, arguably, it did...)

it does! it so obviously does, and yet the characters don't acknowledge this! WTF.

and yes, i noticed the defaulting to sarah jane. i think that's another reason all the dialogue about "the missus and the ex! lol!" grates, because the story itself points that out, except much more effectively and subtlely. and with more nuance.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

I knew Rose was going to leave in Doomsday before I got started, and I think I liked Ten enough as an entity detached from Rose that I continued. Plus, I'd taken peeks into the show's lore, and that really got me hooked onto the idea of the show as a whole despite the problems of that particular series.

That's a really weird comparison to look at there, because both Four/Leela and Three/Jo are like REALLY HIGH on my favorites. XD

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

AN EXCELLENT POINT

I want to have your fic babies.

[fourzoas.livejournal.com]

Thanks for writing the great meta. I, too, can't bear to watch most of S2 for most of the reasons you've outlined. I've had to watch RotC/AoS several times lately, and I just cringe at Rose, especially the beginning of RotC when, as you point out, Rose swans off while Mickey stays with the Doc to look after the TARDIS. When the Doctor says "This TARDIS is dead," I want to hug him.

fathers day is just a clusterfuck of disfunction, with rose manipulating the doctor into doing something extremely dangerous, the doctor letting hiself be manipulated, the bit where he's going to leave her and she yells, "you'll be back, i know how sad you are!" the AMAZINGLY parallel scenes with pete and rose and then the doctor and rose (pete cups her cheek with his right hand, and then hugs her; the doctor cups her cheek with his right hand and does the same thing, just afterwards).

"Father's Day" was the first newWho episode I saw and it hooked me onto the show because the relationship was so dysfunctional (don't know what that says about me) it intrigued me. As the show progressed, though, I got more and more annoyed with what looked like two characters regressing instead of anyone progressing--if that's what love does to you in RTD's world, I think I'll take a measure of hate.

Mickey's story breaks my heart (and really should have prepared me for what was going to happen to Martha) because he so clearly wants acceptance and validation, and he's denied it by this high-school-clique behavior the two of them exhibit. For a show that's likely to have a large contingent of fans who might have felt marginalized by society (which RTD seems to tweak in L&M), it was pretty risky to play up that dynamic for so long and so strongly.

OK...enough rambling. OK if I friend you?

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

watching them by myself i can easily dismiss the parts that are bad or make no sense, but watching with others is facepalm city. THE WEREWOLF BECOMES SPACE JESUS?

They are positively awesomesauce with some more awesomesauce heaped on top.

they are the ones being given actual character development. i think that is why.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

That's a really weird comparison to look at there, because both Four/Leela and Three/Jo are like REALLY HIGH on my favorites.

some people hate three. i can only imagine they can't handle how awesomely sexy he is.

[dancesontrains.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed reading this a lot. Somehow I managed to enjoy Series Two when it was first broadcast- the idea puzzles me now! I guess I managed to ignore the cliquishness of teh Ten & Rose?

And seconding the commenter above- do you mind if I friend you?

[dancesontrains.livejournal.com]

I APPROVE OF THIS.

Re: I want to have your fic babies.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i love the bit where rose is like, "we can get help, right?" and he just looks at her and says, "where from?" it's so sad.

and then the part where he gives the TARDIS ten years of his life, to save her, and he's so happy to do it. i can't completely dislike an episode that has that in it.

OK...enough rambling. OK if I friend you?

every day is friending day here on the supercontinent of pangaea. i usually take countless rotational cycles to friend back because of being strange and liking to lurk forever, but feel free to friend and defriend at will!

Re: I want to have your fic babies.

[airie-fairy.livejournal.com]

Oh, his voice was so cold and hopeless when he responded with that. It was just, "Oh, Doctor." Poor thing. I've never hated the Cyberman two-parter. If Rose's Issues were sole and reason enough for me to hate something, then I'd be in trouble. They already make rewatches hard enough with a comprehensive dislike of everything else intertwined with it.

[prof-pangaea.livejournal.com]

i enjoyed many parts of s2 when it was first broadcast -- there are still a lot of things i enjoy about various episodes. it's strange, it's like there are almost no episodes that don't neccessitate ignoring or handwaving at least one major inconsistency or bad characterisation or something (and usually more). i love the idea of the parallel earth breaking off from our own history when queen victoria became a werewolf, and i love the zeppelins and vague fascism (um, i don't love fascism. only stories about how fascism is bad). i love the TARDIS being thrown through a crack in time and ending up in a universe that kills it by being different, and how the time lords used to regulate those sorts of things, but now they're gone and there's no way to get back. and the underground revolution being led from a van, and finding out more about mickey, and killing the cybermen by letting them feel emotions again-- horrible but fascinating. it's just how the doctor treats mickey, and rose treats the doctor, and... agh. it's awful. but yeah, when you are able to handwave those things the story itself is interesting, and i think that's the case with a number of s2 episodes. i still don't understand the werewolf turning into space jesus, but hey, you can't have everything.

friend away, as long as you don't mind that i take many rotational cycles to process such things. :D